Archive-name: gothic-faq
Last modified: 4 March 1995
Version: 2.1

Frequently Asked Questions list for alt.gothic newsgroup

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   This FAQ was created by Peter Wake (peterw@cs.man.ac.uk), and is
   currently maintained by Ryan Watkins (vamp@vamp.org). Please direct
   corrections and additions to vamp@vamp.org.
   
   This list is posted on a monthly basis to the alt.gothic news group,
   and is also available via anonymous FTP at
   ftp.maths.tcd.ie:/pub/music/gothic/gothic-faq (mirrored at
   goth-ftp.acc.brad.ac.uk:/ftp.maths.tcd.ie/gothic/gothic-faq) and in
   HTML format at http://www.dnx.com/vamp/Gothic/Text/gothic-faq.html.
   
   Special thanx to the following for information provided within :
   Peter Wake (peterw@cs.man.ac.uk) John Mc Donagh
   (mcdonghj@unix2.tcd.ie)
   Digitar (digitar@io.org) Ian Grimstead (I.J.Grimstead@cm.cf.ac.uk)
   Jeff Harmon (harmon@elia.epfl.ch) The Great Grendel-Khan
   (argent@iastate.edu)
   Sexbat (sexbat@batt.demon.co.uk) Ace of Hearts
   (uaceohrt@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu)
   Petro (petro@mcs.com) Austen Jackson (Ozric@tentacle.demon.co.uk)
   and others to numerous to mention....
     _________________________________________________________________
                                      
   Contents
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Section: 1 Basics

   Subject: 1.1 What is a Goth?
   Subject: 1.2 What the history of the goth movement?
   Subject: 1.3 Is goth about religion?
   Subject: 1.4 What does gothic music sound like?
   Subject: 1.5 So what does the word 'goth' mean.
   
Section: 2 Resources

   Subject: 2.1 What Gothic music lists exist?
   Subject: 2.2 Where are the gothic FTP sites?
   Subject: 2.3 Where can I find lyrics, pictures, etc for a goth band?
   Subject: 2.4 What are some various Vampire related net resources?
   Subject: 2.5 Where can I find this "Goth Test"?
   Subject: 2.6 What are the mail addresses of some goth bands?
   Subject: 2.7 What comics are Goth?
   Subject: 2.8 Are there any good goth clubs in ?
   
Section: 3 Various Trivia

   Subject: 3.1 Is the Nefilim a spelling mistake?
   Subject: 3.2 Where does the phrase Sisters of Mercy arise from?
   Subject: 3.3 Are the Sisterhood the same as the Sisters of Mercy?
   Subject: 3.4 What is the best black dye?
   Subject: 3.5 What should I use to paint my jacket?
   Subject: 3.6 How do I identify a net goth?
   Subject: 3.7 What has Anne Rice written?
   Subject: 3.8 Who is Storm Constantine?
   Subject: 3.9 Any other interesting goth authors?
   Subject: 3.10 Any interesting goth movies?
   Subject: 3.11 Who is Andrew Eldritch, Carl McCoy, Wayne Hussey, ...?
   Subject: 3.12 What do Pre-Raphaelites have to do with goth?
   Subject: 3.13 What is 'Snakebite'?
   Subject: 3.14 Whats the best way to dye my hair?
   
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Section: 1 Basics

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   Subject: 1.1 What is a Goth?
   
   The term 'Goth' was used by Ian Astbury who described Andi Sex Gang as
   a 'gothic pixie' and popularised by the UK music magazines New Musical
   Express and Sounds (NME) and was used to describe a class of music.
   For some people that music became the basis for a 'way of life'. They
   brought their own backgrounds and interests along and a sub-culture
   was formed and it took for itself the name Gothic.
   
   Subject: 1.2 What the history of the goth movement?
   
   NME and Sounds reputedly took the term Gothic from Siouxsie Sioux (of
   the Banshees) who used it to describe the new direction for her band.
   However the earliest significant usage of the term (as applied to
   music) was by Anthony H. Wilson who was overcome by a rare moment of
   lucidity on a 1978 BBC TV program when he described Joy Division as
   Gothic compared with the pop mainstream. Perhaps Joy Division (who he
   was managing) are not what we now think of as Goth but it is possible
   that they are at the source of the term. Bauhaus were labelled as
   Gothic as early as 1979 when they released Bela Lugosi's Dead.
   
   The pop journalists were quick to latch onto the term and they applied
   it in a nasty sort of pigeonholing way to a number of bands that were
   around in the early 80s - most of which did not sound much like the
   Banshees (or anyone else for that matter), the journalists were more
   concerned with looks. The (Southern Death) Cult was foremost amongst
   these bands, like the Banshees they wore lots of black and silver and
   had extreme black hair. The Sisters of Mercy were also so labelled and
   when they split and Wayne Hussey founded the Mission they carried
   their label with them, despite being different musically. Finally The
   Fields of the Nephilim appeared and they (perhaps) consciously and
   deliberately got themselves labelled as Gothic despite looking and
   sounding quite different to what had previously been labelled Goth.
   
   The fans of bands like the Sisters, Bauhaus and Siouxsie liked to
   dress up in lots of black. The music they liked was something of a
   backlash against the colourful disco music of the seventies. The
   Banshees were a punk band before they mellowed and punk was brathing
   its last as Gothdom gathered speed, and the so one could claim Gothdom
   grew out of punk. The music of Joy Division, the Sisters and Bauhaus
   was angst ridden but all the hatred was turned inwards and the music
   was typified by introspective lyrics. Many of the new Goth followers
   were introspective too. Some were a bit confused by the label and
   started to think that the label Goth was in some way connected with
   the Victorian Gothic revival and Gothic horror and because enough of
   them thought that eventually it became true.
   
   NME and Sounds were not oblivious to this and produced many hilarious
   articles poking fun at the Goths amongst their readers. They said that
   being Goth was about sitting around in circles on the floor of pubs
   (bars) smoking a lot and talking about being a bat. Some readers of
   this list get angry at this. Luckily most Goths have a good enough
   sense of humour to laugh at themselves once in a while. The first
   generation Goths complain that second and third generation Goths often
   seem to think that Gothdom is about wearing the blackest black, with a
   lot of silver jewellery and looking as thin and pale as possible. In
   common with their older bretheren they avoid the crass comercialism of
   mainstream rock and gather together to share their woes :-) They read
   Bram Stoker and Anne Rice and talk about being vampires. They read
   H.P. Lovecraft and talk about the end of the world.
   
   The sounds that were described as Gothic were appearing in other
   countries besides the UK in the late seventies, but I have yet to see
   any evidence that they were using the word. (If you have any...)
   Currently Germany is the bastion of Goth, where they are called
   Grufties. If German people are doing a write up on the Goth scene
   there, please send me a copy. So that's how we got where we are today.
   Today Goth is about music, literature, art and about clothes.
   
   Subject: 1.3 Is goth about religion?
   
   Gothdom embraces all religions, all denominations and all races. Many
   Goths are atheists and a sizable minority are new age spiritualists,
   Wiccans and members of other alternative religious groups. There are
   Christian Goths. Basically Goth is not about religion, but with the
   imagery of religion. May goths wear crosses or ankhs, and there are
   many religious references in goth songs, but it is not a religious
   movement.
   
   Goth uses religous imagery in some songs. Christian Death are big on
   this. Bauhaus did a couple of tracks with religious imagery. The
   Sisters have a quasi-religious name but this is ironic, their music
   shows that religion is not Andrew Eldritch's main concern - he prefers
   politics. The Mission (UK) were fairly 'new age'. Carl McCoy favoured
   shamanistic traditions and gnostic revelation. Religious jewellery is
   often worn, particularly crucifixes and ankhs. These are strong
   symbols with powerful subconscious effects. Sometimes they are worn as
   an satirical statement, sometimes not. For some it is just fashion.
   
   Subject: 1.4 What does gothic music sound like?
   
   Thanks to John Mc Donagh aka Nascent Virion for a list of what bands
   he though typified the Gothic sound. Some may disagree, but this is a
   rather decent representaion of GENERAL catagories.
   
   Original Goth:
     * Bauhaus
     * Christian Death
     * Southern Death Cult*
     * Joy Division (Sometimes had a Goth sound, didn't look very Goth)
     * Sisters of Mercy
     * Siouxsie and the Banshees
       
   
   Miscellaneous Goth:
     * The Fields of The Nephilim**(Too new to be original, too old to be
       new)
     * The Mission (UK) (Early stuff was considered Goth by the music
       press)
     * Sex Gang Children
       
   
   Mellow Goth:
     * Dead Can Dance
     * Xmal Deutschland
     * Danielle Dax (more poppy)
       
   
   Metal/Industrial Goth:
     * Creaming Jesus (Metalish)
     * James Rays Gangwar (Goth w/samples)
       (A lot of Goths listen to Ministry but they aren't really Goth)
       
   
   Experimental/Folky/Occult Goth:
     * Current 93
     * Death In June
     * Sol Invictus
       
   
   New Goth:
     * Nosferatu, Rosetta Stone (Sisters/Mission sounding bands)
     * Shadow Project (Off shoot of Christian Death)
     * Clan of Xymox (Synth, almost dancey)
       
   * Southern Death Cult (SDC) later split in all directions. Only SDC
   are condsidered properly Gothic. However many of Southern Death Cult's
   Goth followers remained true even when they entered their 'The Cult'
   glam metal phase.
   
   ** Fields of the Nephilim were so unlike previous Goth it is amazing
   that they were ever considered Goth at all. Nonetheless they are one
   of the definitive Goth bands and most Goths took to them instantly
   because of their originality and talent.
   
   See "The Gothlist" by Corey for a much more complete list of goth
   bands. See 'Subject: 2.2 Where are the gothic FTP sites?' for more
   detail on how to get a copy.
   
   Subject: 1.5 So what does the word 'goth' mean.
   
   The word 'Goth' does indeed refer to a tribe of the indo-european
   kind. The Goths slowly integrated into the melting pot of Europe and
   basically disappeared.
   
   The word 'gothic' is first found in common usage in 1611, referring
   mainly to an 'uncivilized lack of taste or education'. The people who
   built in the 'gothic' style would have never used this term. These
   people were monks or artisans who worked for the church to build a
   land of Cathedrals from the 11th century on. They also built castles
   and other edifices. The 16th century saw a large amount of turmoil
   with the reform and all. This opened up the architecture field quite a
   bit. This new wave of artists looked back on what they saw as a bland
   repetitive style of architecture as 'gothic'. Unfortunatly, because of
   the shallowness of the learned men at that time, it stuck. It was also
   referred to as Ogive - or the characteristic arch of this style - this
   word is usually used by most politically correct historians.
   
   The fact is: Ogive architecture today is extremely inspiring and
   beautiful. The nameless men who designed and built these works of
   grandor were very talented and inspired. One merely has to look at the
   Cathedral of Chartres, Paris, Amiens, Canterbury or any of the other
   edifices of this age to realize irony of using 'gothic'. In fact, to
   augment the irony, the popular opinion today is that much of the
   baroque architecture of the 17th and 18th centuries is gaudy and
   flamboyant.
   
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Section: 2 Internet Resources

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   Subject: 2.1 What Gothic music lists exist?
   
   The Sisters of Mercy Electronic mailing list run by Pete French
   (-bat). Send mail to dominion-request@ohm.york.ac.uk to ask to be
   added to the list. Send postings to dominion@ohm.york.ac.uk.
   
   There is also a Fields of the Nephilim Electronic mailing list. Mail
   to neph-request@wave.cerf.net to ask be added to the mailing list. The
   address to post to the list is neph@wave.cerf.net
   
   ubject: 2.2 Where are the gothic FTP sites?
   
   ftp.maths.tcd.ie:/pub/music/gothic. This site is maintained by Nascent
   Virion , who will be graduating and leaving the
   net in June. A mirror site at goth-ftp.acc.brad.ac.uk (143.53.1.4) has
   been set up to contain all the info at ftp.maths.tcd.ie:/pub/music, as
   well as a number of other goth resources, including various gothic
   lyrics, discographies, faqs, images, and Corey's Goth List, etc can be
   found. Get the README and INDEX files from the pub/music directory for
   the full contents of the music area, which included guitar tabs, and
   other music resources. When you FTP use 'anonymous' as the username
   and your email address as the password. If you don't have FTP access
   mail to ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com.
   
   There is also another gothic archive site in the United States by
   Peter Stone (bat@cyberden.com) at cyberden.com. It contains much of
   the original gothic archive site as of 12/93, as well as other new
   material.
   
   Subject: 2.3 Where can I find lyrics, pictures, etc for a goth band?
   
   There is a huge music archive available via anonymous FTP at
   ftp.uwp.edu:/pub/music. If a band isnt at the goth archive, it might
   very well be at the main music archive.
   
   There are also a number of goth World Wide Web servers out there, and
   the following should get you started, and most have links to other
   sites.
   
   The Dark Side by VampLestat (vamp@vamp.org) is at
          http://www.dnx.com/vamp/Gothic/
          
   Rob's Gothic Section is at
          http://web.cs.nott.ac.uk/~rji/index.html
          
   The Sisters of Mercy Home Page by Ian Grimstead is at
          http://www.cm.cf.ac.uk:/Sisters.Of.Mercy/
          
   Subject: 2.4 What are some various Vampire related net resources?
   
   Go ask in alt.vampyres and check out the alt.vampyres FAQ file posted
   there.
   
   Subject: 2.5 Where can I find this "Goth Test"?
   
   Its available via anonymous FTP at ftp.maths.tcd.ie in
   /pub/music/gothic/ as 'the_goth_test'. It can also be found in Take a
   Bite 1.0 - jokingly subtitled 'the net.goth handbook', which is also
   available at the same site.
   
   Subject: 2.6 What are the mail addresses of some goth bands?
   
   Sisters of Mercy Information Service:
   
   
    The Reptile House Ltd.
    PO Box HP29
    Leeds LS6 1LS
    West Yourshire
    England
    
   The Nefilim Information Service:
   
   
    The Watchman
    P.O. Box 17
    Stevenage
    Herts
    SG2 0QX
    England
    
   Rosetta Stone Information Service:
   
   
    Rosetta Stone
    31 Ivanhoe Road
    Aigburth
    Liverpool
    L17 8FX
    England
    Phone: +44 051 728 8998
    
   Subject: 2.7 What comics are Goth?
   
   Sandman - written by Neil Gaiman and published by Vertigo. Also
   various offshoot projects: Books of magic, High Cost of Living (about
   his sister, Death) etc.
   
   The Crow:
     * 4 issue mini series published in 1989 by Caliber
     * 3 issue mini series published in 1992 by Tundra
     * The Crow TPB (Trade Paperback) reprints ALL Crow stories/art
       published in 1993 by Kitchen Sink Press ($15.95 US coverprice)
       
   Love and Rockets - (sort of punk/goth) by Los Bros Hernandez,
   published by Fantagraphics. This is where the band name came from by
   the way.
   
   The Vampire Chronicles - Three different series - one for each of the
   first three Anne Rice vampire books, adapted by hacks, published by
   Innovation. OK only if you've already read the books. Anne Rice
   doesn't like them at all.
   
   Stray Toasters - four issue mini series by Bill Sienkiewicz
   (pronounced as Sin-KEV-itch) published by Epic. Inspiration for a
   Creaming Jesus song.
   
   Grendel - by Matt Wagner, published by Dark Horse (was published by
   Comico). Some stories are fairly Gothic others are not.
   
   Sandman Mystery Theatre - by Matt Wagner, published by Vertigo. An old
   golden age DC character revived. Full of atmosphere.
   
   Cerebus - by Dave Sim and Gerhard. Not strictly Gothic, but black and
   white. Flight and Women have a great Sandman satire.
   
   Subject: 2.8 Are there any good goth clubs in ?
   
   There is a full list of internation clubs maintained by digitar
   (digitar@io.org). Email him for a copy, or FTP 'GothClubs' from the
   goth archive at ftp.maths.tcd.ie:/pub/music/gothic. There is also a
   hypertext version at http://www.dnx.com/vamp/Gothic/clublist.html.
   Please email in any additions you might have to digitar's list.
   
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Section: 3 Various Trivia

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   Subject: 3.1 Is the Nefilim a spelling mistake?
   
   This is the name for Carl McCoy's new (yet to appear) band. The rest
   of the original Fields are now called Rubicon and have a new singer.
   They are no longer considered Goth.
   
   Subject: 3.2 Where does the phrase Sisters of Mercy arise from?
   
   Andrew Eldritch chose the phrase as the name of this band from a
   Leonard Cohen song of that name. The song may be referring to
   prostitutes as 'Sisters of Mercy'. There is also a religious order who
   are sometimes known by that name.
   
   Subject: 3.3 Are the Sisterhood the same as the Sisters of Mercy?
   
   The Sisterhood was a one shot band created by Andrew Eldritch to stop
   Wayne Hussey using the name when Hussey left the Sisters of Mercy. By
   the way, 25000 pounds was not granted in a court case - it is merely
   the advance budget that the Mission didn't get.
   
   Subject: 3.4 What is the best black dye?
   
   Synthetic dyes are best. The 'Ritt' dye rarely works well and tends to
   be coloured, though it isnt available in the UK. There is a japanese
   semi-natural dye (Ginsa?) which is not bad if you can get it. As for
   tips on how to actually dye clothes with this:
   
   Don't use a Washing machine. Get a big pot (no, not that one, I said a
   BIG POT. Put the object in that you wish to die, and fill it with
   enough water to cover the object and then some. Remove the object.
   This is done to make sure that when you put the article of clothing
   back in, you don't die the stove.
   
   Put the pot on the stove and boil the water. The hotter the better.
   Unfortunately it is difficult to get the water much above 212f (100c).
   Add the Dye. Approxametly twice what the package says and stir (no,
   not with your arm, and don't use the spoon that you stir spaghetti
   with either) add the garment. Boil for a while, turn off the heat and
   let cool. When the BIG POT is cool enough, put in a corner overnight.
   The next day rinse the garment out with cold water as well as the pot.
   put the garment back in the pot and fill with vinegar. Let set a day
   or two, and wash in cold water with about half the amount of laundry
   soap you normally use.
   
   Subject: 3.5 What should I use to paint my jacket?
   
   Acrylics are best. Clean the jacket with warm soapy water. Use a
   'flexible medium' if possible. If using Liquitex brand you may get
   away without. You can varnish with with clear acryclic coating to
   protect further.
   
   T-Shirts can be done above but the flexible medium is essential. This
   way is better than buying fabric paints.
   
   Subject: 3.6 How do I identify a net goth?
   
   The words net.goth in lower case should be written on them somewhere.
   The jacket arm just below the shoulder is recommended by Sexbat (but
   he may be teasing you - be warned :-)
   
   Subject: 3.7 What has Anne Rice written?
   
   For the best answer, you should read the newsgroup
   alt.books.anne-rice. Anne Rice is alive and well and writes
   supernatural romance. Interview With a Vampire is her mort artistic
   work but other books are all good readable stuff with strong themes.
   
   The Vampire Chronicles:
          Interview With a Vampire
          The Vampire Lestat
          Queen of the Damned
          The Tale of the Body Thief
          
   She has also written:
          The Mummy or Rameses the Damned
          The Witching Hour
          
   As well as a trilogy of bondage stories under the name of A.N.
   Roquelaire - which are not gothic. Two 'romance' novels as Anne
   Rampling, called Exit to Eden and Belinda, as well as a short story:
   Master of Rampling Gate.
   
   Anne Rice's Vampire LeStat Fan Club
   Vampire LeStat
   P.O. Box 58277
   New Orleans, Lousiana 70158-8277
   
   Subject: 3.8 Who is Storm Constantine?
   
   Another Gothic author. Storm is more Gothic and less mainstream than
   Anne Rice. She has a series of books which have a lot in common with
   Anne Rice's vampire chronicles. She is interested in the occult and in
   very ancient mythology, biblical connections et cetera. Some of her
   ideas are very controversial, often in total contradiction with most
   well known academic research. She is published by Headline in the UK.
   
   Inception: Storm Constantine Information Service
   c/o Vikki Lee France & Steve Jeffery
   44 White Way
   Kidlington, Oxon OX5 2XA
   England
   
   Subject: 3.9 Any other interesting goth authors?
   
   There are plenty, including Bram Stoker and H.P. Lovecraft. Bram
   Stoker wrote Dracula and Lair of the White Worm amongst others. He
   died of syphilis and was quite mad at the end. H.P. Lovecraft wrote
   many short stories, most of which involved the Cthulhu mythos which he
   invented. He died after a tragically short career. He had a phobia of
   cold and was quite reclusive. He wrote a classic paper on Gothic
   Horror which is a must read.
   
   Subject: 3.10 Any interesting goth movies?
   
   The German Expressionists are quite Gothic and the film Nosferatu (the
   B&W version) is considered very Gothic. The remake: Nosferatu the
   Vampyre is also Gothic despite being in colour. The Cabinet of Doctor
   Caligari is probably the most Gothic film of all.
   
   And of course there are the common ones, "Dracula" (in its many
   remakes) and The Hunger staring David Bowie, and "Interview with a
   Vampire"
   
   Subject: 3.11 Who is Andrew Eldritch, Carl McCoy, Wayne Hussey, ...?
   
   Andrew Eldritch and Carl McCoy are the singers from The Sisters of
   Mercy and The Fields of the Nephilim respectively. They are pillars of
   the Goth community. Wayne Hussey was guitarist in the Sisters but he
   left in a bad mood. He then failed to get a slice of record company
   money allocated to the Sisters despite a court battle. He and Eldritch
   are now reconciled personally if not musically.
   
   Subject: 3.12 What do Pre-Raphaelites have to do with goth?
   
   The Pre-Raphaelites were an artistic movement in Victorian England.
   They were part of the revival of Gothic architecture. Their art is
   stunning - try and see the originals if you can.
   
   Subject: 3.13 What is 'Snakebite'?
   
   Half a lager and half a cider. Lager is what americans would call
   "beer" and cider is the same sort of thing made from apples basically.
   The combination is somewhat lethal. A lot of pubs will refuse to serve
   it. Variations: "snakebite black" - the same drink with a splash of
   blackcurrant in it, also known as a "purple nasty" up north and is the
   cliche goth drink (also can be prepared as snakebite and black with a
   pernod and a vodka in it). "red witch" - a snakebite with pernod and
   black in - not to be taken lightly under any circumstances. "Anaconda"
   - made with half a pint of Theakstons Old Peculiar (or another real
   ale) and a bottle of Diamond White or 1080 (or other strong dry
   cider), a dash of black and two straws. It can also be *real beer* and
   cider (i.e. ale) e.g. Theakston's Old Peculier (~5.5%) + Scrumpy Jack
   (erm, ~5%ish), a rather entertaining mix
   
   Subject: 3.14 Whats the best way to dye my hair?
   
   Note: all of the products below should and will need to be purchased
   at a beauty supply place, substitute equivalents as needed
   
   Start with healthy hair. In order to do this I recommend using good
   products. ie Nexxuss etc. Seeing we cant all afford that kind of
   stuff, the generics usually work well.
   
   If you are dying your hair just like a standard color try Wella - blue
   black, Black Cherry, Loreal- Aurelle Cherry Plum, Clairol- 70R Plum
   brown. TRY AND AVOID TORRIDS. It is death to your hair. They look cool
   but you pay a price in the end. Put a high intensity conditioner right
   in the mixture of dye. Use 20 volume developer but not any higher.
   
   "But I want to manic panic my hair! and its already black.. or another
   color!" First, bleach your hair. This is a must unless you are a
   blond. Products that work include Effasol by loreal (use developer not
   water), Torrids Platinum Lightening (its death but it works. its a
   high power tint), SpeedLighT by Wella.
   
   This can take several tries. It took Lady Renee 8 bleaches over 6
   weeks to get my pretty purple hair, often bleaching her hair 3 times
   in day for several hours. Leave it in for up to an hour a process and
   when the bleach dries it quits working so mist it lightly with warm
   water. (It reactivates it) Condition between each process! Or watch
   your hair fall out.
   
   For the actual Manic Panic, (you can also use Punky Colors or Krazy
   Colors):
     * Apply, Wear gloves, it stains.
     * For even application use a bottle not plop it on and when you
       think your are done. Slick it back and use a toothbrush to do your
       roots.
     * Leave it in as long as possible and apply heat if you can.
       
   "OH FUCK I made a mess" Well honestly folks, you are in trouble. Manic
   panic can ruin many many things. General Substances that will clean
   you (ears etc ) and your house: Finger Nail polish Remover (with
   acetone), Clean Touch (made to remove hair dye..works well), Rubbing
   Alcohol, Oxy, Noxema rubbing pads.
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